If I was a social scientist I would propose a new variation on the famous Milgram Experiment, which, in its attempt to discover why so many went along with the Nazis, concluded that two-thirds of people will go along with whatever someone in a position of authority tells them to do.
I remember hearing fellow believers talk similarly dismissively about Afghanistan when that country was a focal point of intractable conflict in the 2000s - suggesting the country should be emptied out or turned into a "glass parking lot". It hurt my soul then, and it hurts over Gaza now.
Blake, thank you. I get what you’re saying. It’s been painful to watch my friends and family who are believers, champion this administration. Making it more important than anything. Very sad.
Yes, though I would be remiss if I didn’t mention how there has been a dehumanizing spirit from all sides syncretizing politics into the faith. The way I see some progressive Christians speak of MAGA Christians disturbs me, and the issue of ceding critical reasoning is in no way limited to one camp. I’m reminded of the progressives I saw cheer Noam Chomsky on when, in 2021, he said that the unvaccinated should be moved to camps and that finding food should be their problem.
To be fair, your evangelical commentator friend isn’t here to defend his position, to cross-examine.
So based just upon what you e said, we your readers can’t really know if he
a) shares your belief that evacuating Gaza would be a humanitarian disaster and is just fine with the suffering that will, in your scenario, surely result,
or
b) defends this suffering as resulting the option he believes will cause the least suffering overall for those involved in the region over time
or
c) he does not share your gloomy analysis, expectation, and is waving away not the mass suffering you anticipate, but rather he is dismissing the likelihood of this happening
Firstly, it's not my scenario. I described the proposal, verbatim. Secondly, if I wanted to out the person and our private conversation, I would have done so. You have plenty of examples of professing Christians coming up with all sorts of rationalizations to work into how you process my statements. Thirdly, I welcome your example of a country going into sovereign territory and forcing the entire population to leave that didn't result in "mass suffering," as you put it.
• I wouldn’t want you telling us who it was without their blessing, no
• But it was unclear from what you wrote whether your commentator friend was willing to countenance the suffering, or just the removal
• As for ‘sovereign territory’ isn’t Gaza just an unallocated portion of the Palestine Mandate? That Arabs live there doesn’t make it a nation state. Technically I should think it belongs to Israel given that the the Arab homeland portion of the Mandate was satisfied with the creation of Jordan
I see what you're saying. I'll divulge a little of our conversation and say that a lack of concern for the humanitarian cost was originally posited and then walked back to your b) position, under pressure.
Gaza is technically under the Palestinian Authority and in reality under Hamas, but I think you're missing the forest for the trees here and conspicuously avoiding the actual question about the consequences of a proposal that is so insane/amoral that even Stephen Wolfe and I can find agreement that it qualifies as ethnic cleansing.
I don’t happen to know what might happen if Gaza was cleared. It might be as bad as you envision, or even worse. Accordingly I was not defending the proposal, but rather trying to give the benefit of the doubt to your friend whose position troubled you.
And in my perhaps too-primitive understanding of Mideast realities, I might regard the PA and/or Hamas as elected to govern the current residents of Gaza, but this seems a separate question from who the land belongs to
I believe a portion, maybe large portion, of our social myopia is due to the manner in which many people use short snippets to arrive at an opinion. Our influencers are masters at providing this type of information that is easily digested and rememberable. Gone are the days of critical thinking.
I remember hearing fellow believers talk similarly dismissively about Afghanistan when that country was a focal point of intractable conflict in the 2000s - suggesting the country should be emptied out or turned into a "glass parking lot". It hurt my soul then, and it hurts over Gaza now.
Blake, thank you. I get what you’re saying. It’s been painful to watch my friends and family who are believers, champion this administration. Making it more important than anything. Very sad.
Yes, though I would be remiss if I didn’t mention how there has been a dehumanizing spirit from all sides syncretizing politics into the faith. The way I see some progressive Christians speak of MAGA Christians disturbs me, and the issue of ceding critical reasoning is in no way limited to one camp. I’m reminded of the progressives I saw cheer Noam Chomsky on when, in 2021, he said that the unvaccinated should be moved to camps and that finding food should be their problem.
Agree, troubling on all sides. Really. My heart aches.
To be fair, your evangelical commentator friend isn’t here to defend his position, to cross-examine.
So based just upon what you e said, we your readers can’t really know if he
a) shares your belief that evacuating Gaza would be a humanitarian disaster and is just fine with the suffering that will, in your scenario, surely result,
or
b) defends this suffering as resulting the option he believes will cause the least suffering overall for those involved in the region over time
or
c) he does not share your gloomy analysis, expectation, and is waving away not the mass suffering you anticipate, but rather he is dismissing the likelihood of this happening
Firstly, it's not my scenario. I described the proposal, verbatim. Secondly, if I wanted to out the person and our private conversation, I would have done so. You have plenty of examples of professing Christians coming up with all sorts of rationalizations to work into how you process my statements. Thirdly, I welcome your example of a country going into sovereign territory and forcing the entire population to leave that didn't result in "mass suffering," as you put it.
• I wouldn’t want you telling us who it was without their blessing, no
• But it was unclear from what you wrote whether your commentator friend was willing to countenance the suffering, or just the removal
• As for ‘sovereign territory’ isn’t Gaza just an unallocated portion of the Palestine Mandate? That Arabs live there doesn’t make it a nation state. Technically I should think it belongs to Israel given that the the Arab homeland portion of the Mandate was satisfied with the creation of Jordan
I see what you're saying. I'll divulge a little of our conversation and say that a lack of concern for the humanitarian cost was originally posited and then walked back to your b) position, under pressure.
Gaza is technically under the Palestinian Authority and in reality under Hamas, but I think you're missing the forest for the trees here and conspicuously avoiding the actual question about the consequences of a proposal that is so insane/amoral that even Stephen Wolfe and I can find agreement that it qualifies as ethnic cleansing.
I don’t happen to know what might happen if Gaza was cleared. It might be as bad as you envision, or even worse. Accordingly I was not defending the proposal, but rather trying to give the benefit of the doubt to your friend whose position troubled you.
And in my perhaps too-primitive understanding of Mideast realities, I might regard the PA and/or Hamas as elected to govern the current residents of Gaza, but this seems a separate question from who the land belongs to
I believe a portion, maybe large portion, of our social myopia is due to the manner in which many people use short snippets to arrive at an opinion. Our influencers are masters at providing this type of information that is easily digested and rememberable. Gone are the days of critical thinking.
Respectfully, taking a quick look at the things you’ve liked on this app over the last few weeks, I would challenge you to follow your own advice.